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An interactive look from msnbc.com at the debate over whether paper or plastic bagging is best for the environment. Is there a correct answer?
I've always wondered this! When they ask paper or plastic, I sometimes ask the cashier what's better for the environment and they don't know. I was at whole foods the other day and I heard that they're getting rid of one type, but I didn't find out which kind.
#1 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:49 PM EDTOk, after watching this I now know much more about each type of bags' impact on the environment, the cost and types of pollution or energy expenditure involved. However, I still don't know which type I should use, given my location (Washington wasn't on the list). I *think* paper is better, but I'm not sure.
Also keep in my when "recycling" bags, paper bags can become paper bags again. Plastic bags usually become something simpler because of the off-gassing that occurs when you raise plastic to high temperatures. Also remember that paper is biodegradable while all the plastic you use in your life will likely still be on the planet when your grandkids die.
Whole Foods is getting rid of plastic bags. They sell cheap, reusable bags (made from 100% recycled material) though that come with a lifetime warranty. (At least the Whole Foods around here do.)
I'm a fan of paper, it's more easily recycled, plus trees are a renewable resource while the oil needed for plastic is not.
Also, those in-store plastic bag recycling can be a scam. At the grocery store I worked in during high school, they just had us throw the collected plastic bags out...
However, the grocery store I currently use doesn't even offer paper bags, so I'm stuck with plastic.
The store I shop at the most is Aldi's. There you bag your own or you can use boxes from the store. The boxes are free paper bags cost you 5 cents plastic bags cost you 10 cents. the bags are reusable. I like the boxes as they aren't flimsy like bags I saves the boxes and put junk mail in them and set them out on recycle day
I will NOT use paper bags. They are not as durable and don't pack as well in the trunk of your car. Generally they don't have handles and you can carry a lot more plastic bags at a time. I have worked in a supermarket for 9 years now. Some customers get down right mad when I ask if plastic is ok. For stores, plastic is MUCH cheaper to use than paper bags. Customers often complain they have too many plastic bags at home. Then its like why not throw them away! Where I am we can burn our garbage in a barrel in the back yard. I burn every piece of trash that burns, weather it be papers, foams, plastics such as laundry detergent bottles and plastic bags. When you have been bagging groceries for as long as I have, you will find paper bags really start chaffing your hands pretty bad. Often people want paper for their bread or chips. Truth of the matter is that paper offers no more protection against broken chips or smooshed bread. I don't know where people get off thinking paper is the ultimate protector of squishables. While trees might be renewable, it takes time to renew the animals habitats.
Are you aware, that when you burn plastics and everything else that you are polluting the air. It is also against EPA to burn plastics. Not paper. It depends on the area that you live in and the laws there. I just thought you would like to know. Thanks
USE REUSABLE BAGS
David ,
Are you having us on that you would burn plastic? what does that do to your lungs and brain ? and your neighbors air? and all our atmosphere?
please don't be lazy...use reusable bags.
Our local King Soopers has started charging 10 cents per bag (I think either paper or plastic). The nice thing is they offer cloth bags for 99 cents for customers to buy. I think this is the best model by far. Eliminate bags altogether and you won't have to worry about your decision. Plus - those bags are strong strong! They hold a lot of stuff, which is a surprising convenience when using them - no more worry what so ever that they will break. So I would say, if you can, switch to cloth. You'll be very glad you did, for more than one reason.
The use of canvas or reusable bags are the only environmentally-friendly choice for grocery shopping. Think about this... every shopping trip you accumulate more and more bags than you can actually reuse or use as garbage bags. The use of reusable canvas bags for groceries eliminates the decision of which is better for the environment. Plus you aren't left with extra bags to store in a drawer or closet HOPING one day they can be used. When have you seen plastic grocery bags containing recycled content. Currently, all grocery stores including Super-Centers grocery bags DO NOT contain a recycled plastic content thus using virgin materials which places a strain on our environment. Until the industry makes a change we as consumers should REUSE canvas bags and avoid disposable bags as much as we can.
Obviously the reuseable bags are the politically correct answer, but they are not the only answer. I don't have a choice of paper or plastic here but would prefer paper at times and plastic at other times. The plastics can be used to line small trash cans or containing messy waste for the trip to the trash and the paper has many uses also. My biggest problem with the plastic bags is that I get many more of them than I can use and have to toss them as there is no place around that I have found that recycles them.
Why, whenever this issue is discussed, no one ever goes a step further, to ask what is used as your garbage bag? Ultimately, ask for paper, then use that as your garbage bags, which will easily decompose in the landfill. Inevitably, we all end up with plastic bags somehow. These can be used for the smaller bathroom wastebaskets. Then, when you have somewhat wet trash that may leach through the paper garbage bag, dump the wet trash into the bathroom garbage (tissues and toilet paper previously disposed of will soak up moisture). Then switch the bathroom bag into the kitchen paper bag. Also, not enough can be said for composting (eggshells, coffee grinds, fruit and vegetable peels; no meat or protein, it attracts creatures; rinse eggshells). It makes the best soil for potted plants, and it's free.
Paper or plastic? Adding avoidable, unnecessary plastic to a landfill is just wrong!
That report was one of the coolest things I've seen on a news site in a while. The interactivity was fantastic.
Also interesting is the seeder ;)
#2 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:11 PM EDTYes, I agree - this is a question many of us ponder for a few seconds in the checkout line, but no one (to my knowledge) has ever investigated fully. And, the presentation was phenomenal.
About this account, we thought it would make sense to have an MSNBC account to post cool stuff like this to, rather than having a number of employees posting to multiple accounts. Eventually, we should give this column a special treatment and make it easier to find. For now, clipping it to my column and a few groups seems to help.
REUSABLE BAGS... that is the ONLY ... "CORRECT" answer!
Here is an article I wrote a couple of months ago about what you can do that is not paper OR plastic.
#3 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:13 PM EDTYeah, I have some of those small nylon bags they mention in the report that I keep with me when I'm walking around.
Excellent article! I'm sending it to editorial. It may accompany the interactive nicely.
Great design on this feature! Clipped...somewhere...I suppose my column will do.
I own probably five or six reusable bags and I always, always forget them. I get plastic bags more often than not because I can reuse them around the house. I bought a wastebasket for my washroom that fits grocery bags, for instance.
In a small apartment plastic offers a handy way to quickly dispose of organic waste that would otherwise stink up my 700 square feet. (If anyone knows a good, low-stink compost solution for apartments, please let me know.) I never throw away an unused plastic bag--I, like my grandmother, have a plastic bag plastic bag. It holds plastic bags.
I use paper bags to hold paper recycling and mail sometimes, too, and if I make a trip to the grocery without my reusables in tow (which is always...yeesh) I'll bag up in paper instead.
#4 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:32 PM EDTI don't even think I've been given the option of paper in grocery stores for a while. None of the ones near me have paper (at least that I can see.)
I, like my grandmother, have a plastic bag plastic bag. It holds plastic bags.
Every household in Ireland has a drawer full of plastic bags, most of them with other bags in them.
However, I recently bought a bunch of these Reusable bags
The handy thing about them is they fold up when not in use, so you can put all the folded ones into an unfolded one, and keep them in the trunk of the car.
The handles are wider so they don't cut into your hands, and they're really hard wearing.
4-5 of them can hold all of my shopping, and seeing as I only shop every 2 weeks or so that's damn good.
Only cost 1 pound a piece, and since charging for plastic bags is in Southern Ireland,
and coming to Northern Ireland soon enough they're a better option.
Jesus, I feel like a shill for the company.
-Dave
I, like my grandmother, have a plastic bag plastic bag. It holds plastic bags.
I guess I'm like your grandmother too ;)
Dave, cool reusable bags. Do they have a color other than purple? Say, desert camo?
My grandmother is East Coast Irish Canadian, so maybe that accounts for something. The bag of bags is clearly an Irish thing, like drinking or beating your lover (of any sex). All things Calvin is suspiciously proficient in doing. I never really believed he was Asian, anyway. :)
Those are the type of reusable bag I'm referring to. I even have some schmancy hot/cold insulated ones! But, alas, I forget to bring them on shopping trips, as I mentioned, and it never occurs to me to put them in the trunk of my car for future spur-of-the-moment-type trips. *Sigh*
The bag of bags is clearly an Irish thing
Pretty much every Filipino I've ever met does this too.
YER ALL IRISH!
(If anyone knows a good, low-stink compost solution for apartments, please let me know.
Worm bin with some loose plastic over the top works great for me indoors with no smell. But only veggie/paper/breads waste not meat.
I use most of my paper - junk mail included - in the worm bin though cardboard I put into a recycle bin for the city.
Do they have a color other than purple? Say, desert camo?
I have a terrible webcam, so that colour is supposed to be blue. They also come in green.
Never seen them in any other colours, or any other shops aside from the one I bought them in...
I'll look into it.
Ah here we are... Folding tote bag
That just happens to be the one that looks most similar to mine,
however there are bound to be loads of these things out there,
and I'm sure you'll find a nice manly manly shopping bag one of these days Calvin.
Cause you're so butch and all that.
-Dave
Yeah those come through various manufacturers in all colors. The shops here mostly carry the green ones, but I've seen white, red, yellow, black, grey, and blue over the last year. They have been catching on lately since the stores are getting taxed by the bag and some stores are passing it on directly.
You can get the reusable bags in any design you want!
A "manly" re-useable shopping bag? What a great idea. Perhaps more men could then be persuaded to do the weekly shop?
The bag of bags is clearly an Irish thingPretty much every Filipino I've ever met does this too.
My family does this, too. We use nothing but plastic grocery bags in our trash cans.
There's also a strange tendency around north NJ to put a paper bag in a plastic bag for groceries. What a royal waste.
We also stockpile those fancy heavy-stock clothing designer shopping bags. We've only found occasional use for those, though.
There's also a strange tendency around north NJ to put a paper bag in a plastic bag for groceries. What a royal waste.
That happens at a lot of takeout places around me. I usually tell them to just skip the plastic.
There's also a strange tendency around north NJ to put a paper bag in a plastic bag for groceries. What a royal waste.
It gives you the storage capacity of paper, but with handles ;-)
It gives you the storage capacity of paper, but with handles ;-)
I realize that's the intent, but it just ends up more cumbersome, because you have to squeeze the handles together anyway.
For fast food sometimes the intent is the insulation properties of paper combined with leak protection of plastic.
I have some special insulated bags for hot and cold products that are reusable. Plastic inside and out with foam inside.
"If anyone knows a good, low-stink compost solution for apartments, please let me know."
This company makes composting machines for kitchens that cost around $300 each.
This company makes composting machines for kitchens that cost around $300 each.
That's way out of my price range, unfortunately, as I'm unemployed at the moment. :) Can you leave me the name of the company? (As a new user you don't have full posting privileges, so your link did not show up).
You can build a "crate" for composting under you sink or whatever and buy redworms for the composting (there are a few places that will ship from online). I have a few friends who have done this and I think the whole setup cost them about $40. I would google for more info. (I haven't built my crate yet, but the worms have reproduced to the point where they are up for grabs now)
Yes, I always re-use my plastic bags as well, mostly for household rubbish. Stolte, you cannot keep food waste around inside an apartment, because no matter how careful you are with it, it will start decomposing and smell.
In Britain, there is a huge row going on over the use of Free plastic bags, with almost all Supermarkets charging for them.
The days of free plastic bags in Britain are almost over.
#5 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:40 PM EDTActually, maybe charging for them is a good thing, if it convinces people to bring reusable bags. Even if they don't charge you to use them, you're paying for them as the cost is baked into the cost of all the food items (overhead).
Actually, maybe charging for them is a good thing, if it convinces people to bring reusable bags
.
Many other European countries* also do this.
I'm all for charging for bags, as long as part of the cost paid goes to recycling efforts. We should pay for the bag and the consequences of using it.
*BTW in Germany, they even charge for each consumed bread roll on the restaurant table!
Ireland eliminated most of the problem by imposing a tax on the plastic bags.
Ireland eliminated most of the problem by imposing a tax on the plastic bags
They tried to get around that by calling it a "Levy" but it's still a tax.
Last I checked it was 22 cents, so around a quarter a bag.
Plastic bag use plummeted.
-Dave
I went to the new IKEA in West Chester yesterday where they do, in fact, charge for plastic bags. I bought two of their big reusable blue bags--you could sail the Atlantic in one of those things! Anyway, they were 59¢ apiece, and the 5¢ for regular disposables goes to a plant-a-tree foundation. No skin off my nose and savin' the planet. Woo!
I recently switched to cloth bags, however still need some plastic to use as trash bags..
#6 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:17 PM EDTI really like the idea of these as well.
#7 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:31 PM EDTThose are pretty cool Eric, now if we can just get some stores to stock them....
I don't know about those, Eric, because they're using corn, i.e., food, to produce the plastic. The price of corn has already shot up due to biofuels. Wouldn't these plastics made from corn make it worse?
I like them from a technological standpoint... making plastic-like materials from renewable resources. I'd of course ideally like to see the U.S. government legalize hemp (as it's incredibly renewable and currently nothing is made from it) for use in ethanol and hopefully these new kinds of "plastics". And, you know, if there's still room in production they could branch out to clothing and paper as well =p
Making bags from "corn"? Great idea, except for one small thing that may have been overlooked. Corn needs to grow, uses agricultural land that should be used to grow food crops. It requires tending, harvesting, and preparing.
The one good thing about this idea is that it is 100% biodegradeable.
Hemp reusable bags would be a great alternative, as Eric suggests. It is biodegradable, durable, easy to grow, and has numerous other uses. When, oh when, will people wake up?
Hemp is so useful, from it you can make paper, rope, clothes, it's a medicene, oh, and of course you get to make those long many-skinned cigarrettes from it, let me see, now, what are they called? A short word begins with "S"......ah! got it. Spliffs!!!!
If you smoke your bag, what are you going to do when you go to the store to sate the munchies?
Maybe that's a time for plastic!
This is not complete.
Please note that in principle it is possible to use used plastics bags as an alternative fuel especially in the cement industry which, due to te cleanness of PE/PP and the high temperatures achieved, reduces the alternative consumption of petcoke or coke by quite a bit.
It depends on the regulations to use alternative fuels in cement production in the country or region concerned.
In Germany for instances, arguably the most elaborate recycling nation in the world, there is litterally no plastics recycling performed anymore as the energetic benefit of using plastics instead of petcoke in cement manufacturing beats the recycling and use-petcoke-instead balance. And it also beats paper.
The link is looking at recycling only. Recycling is only one of two alternative uses for spent plastic.
#8 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:35 PM EDTOne part of that which wasn't exactly true was the oil used for plastics. Plastics aren't made as one use of oil it's made as part of the use of oil so when you need to make gasoline for instance some of the crude oil can't be used for that and part of that part is what's used for plastics. They aren't competitive products in the refining chain, they aren't even easily/economically reformed into longer chain products so it's mainly the choice between propane butane or plastics for that part of the derivative.
I thought the interactive thing was really cool and look forward to other features like that.
#9 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:37 PM EDTSo, uh, I didn't see anyone else mention that this appears to be the inaugural submission of the MSNBC bot. Now we have the Newsvine Cyborg and this bot. I see them multiplying. Run for the hills, SkyNet is here!
#10 - Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:49 PM EDTIn my roundabout way I mentioned it in the second sentence of comment 2.
So, uh, I didn't see anyone else mention that this appears to be the inaugural submission of the MSNBC bot. Now we have the Newsvine Cyborg and this bot. I see them multiplying. Run for the hills, SkyNet is here!
The Newsvine Cyborg has been rather lonely, so the new MSNBC Bot will be visiting us from time to time.
In my roundabout way I mentioned it in the second sentence of comment 2.
Ah Eric, always taking credit in roundabout ways ;)
Now if we could get the AP android a new positronic brain, we'd be all set.
Wouldn't a "negatronic" brain be more appropriate for Newsvine?
I see what you did there.
As a result of this good discussion we've had, we're going to experiment with the idea of posting neat features like the one here to Newsvine as an "alpha testing ground", to solicit Newsvine community feedback and commentary ahead of bringing cool stories and features like this to larger audiences.
Another benefit I see in doing this, is that we'll come across or inspire more Newsvine articles like Dr Know's, that are a nice accompaniement to the interactive story being linked to in this seed.
Please add the MSNBC Group to your watchlists.
#11 - Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:18 PM EDTIn Cincinnati, I'm able to take all my plastic bags back to the local Kroger store. Kroger is headquartered in Cincinnati and, last I heard, was the largest grocery chain in the world. Given this, a lot of stuff gets piloted here, so I'm not sure if this is typical of all Krogers across the U.S. If you have one of these stores in your area, you might look around the shopping cart area to see if there is a barrel at the entrance where you can bring these back.
I do even take back bags I got from other stores and not just groceries. Plus, you can include all the clear wrap you get around cases of water, the small bags you use for produce, and even other plastic wraps from various products (not the hard coverings, but all the flexible, clear stuff).
It is interesting after a few months of being diligent. The volume of bags I build up is far more than I would have thought. Even my garbage to the curb is noticeably down. And I simply shove all the plastic into one of the first bags I get each month and they are available on a hook in my garage in case I do need one for reuse.
Anyway, very low effort and something I highly suggest you find out if you can do as well.
#12 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:45 AM EDTThe places I shop I don't have an option of "paper or plastic" -- it's automatically plastic. I've bought quite a few reusable bags and that's all I use now. I keep some in my car for those emergency trips (the ones that aren't planned!) and remember to bring the other bigger ones when I go to the grocery store. I'm all about the reusable ones!
#13 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:05 AM EDTYour calculator includes nowhere to state how many bags you re-use, or how many of the bags you recycle. You also should include a page where comments can be posted as to how you re-use the bags. I saw one interviewee comment on the re-use of plastic bags to clean up after their dog. That actually saves on production of bags. We re-use about 10% as trash bags, and recycle the rest. We used to use them as the second wrapper for items we put in the freezer, but we now use bread bags for that.
Grocery stores in my area, Fredericksburg, VA, no longer allow you to use anything but plastic or re-usable bags. The Bloom and Food Lion chains in our area have recycling receptacles at their front doors. The Giant chain does not.
I see no discussion on how plastic bags for bread, and other high use bags are managed.
#14 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:13 AM EDTThere is a great little company called Project Kool (www.projectkool.com) that is addressing this issue. They make washable, reusable cotton canvas lunch bags for kids to bring to school instead of paper, plastic and vinyl bags. Their products all come with washable markers so that kids can color on the bags. Great idea! They also have tote bags and other items for adults
#15 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:20 AM EDTSeveral comments: 1. In Ireland (not known for large grocery stores, anyway) we were charged for the plastic bags. Many people brought their own cloth bags. 2. I hate plastic because the groceries roll out while I am driving. At least with paper, they stay in the bag, and I don't have to re-bag everything in my driveway. 3. Plastic bags are hard on the hands of the elderly.
#16 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:29 AM EDTMost of the stores where I live don't offer you a choice. In Baltimore,Md. the city tells you "don't put you recycle-ables in plastic bags", however you can buy Plastic recycle bins from the city for recycling, I don't see why one can't use a Blue plastic bag to put plastic RECYCLE-ABLES in BY THE WAY "What ever happened to those blue Recycle bags?"
#17 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:42 AM EDTI just heard about Baltimore's Green Week coming up in late April. They have an EcoFest in Druid Hill on Sat. April 26th as a wrap up. Sounds like a good event with loads of info on things like this- and lots of vendors to talk to/shop from to go green.
We've recently switched to using reusable bags 100% of the time. Concern for the environment was the driving force behind us switching. When you consider environmental impact of the production of paper or plastic (Making paper bags produces 50x the water pollution as plastic while plastic consumes 12 million barrels of oil a year) I can't in good conscious continue to use them. Consider that each reusable bag, over it's lifetime, will replace 1000 paper/plastic bags! Plus, some stores give you a 5 cent discount for each reusable bag you use. That's a 50 dollar discount over the lifetime of the bag!! We got our reusable bags at Be the Bay (www.bethebay.com). They're great!
#18 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:42 AM EDT
If you live in the Chesapeake Bay/mid-Atlantic region, you should check out www.bethebay.com
They convinced me to switch over to the re-useable bags they're selling and I'm glad they did. They just did a newsletter on the impacts of both plastic and paper to the Bay region- really eye-opening!
Great bags and a great message. Plus they give some of their profits back to environmental projects. What more can you ask for.
The number one complaint I have is the cashier/baggers in the stores. I buy 12 small items and come home with 6-9 bags. The carelessness I witness offends me. I can usually put my purchases in 1-3 bags and I try to bag them myself. i use the bags for garbage liners an don't dispose of many in any other manner.
#19 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:42 AM EDTHonestly Im not really sure which one is better for the enviornment because if you look at it, producing both kinds of bags are not good for the enviornment. The good thing about paper bags is that you can recycle them and maybe reuse them as well but making them causes a lot of pollution and they cut down a lot of trees everyday just to make things we end up throwing away and not recycling. The good about plastic bags is that you can reuse them and they come in handy sometimes but all that oil being used to make these bags is a lot and they are not as recyclable as paper bags. My personal opinion is that both types of bags have a big impact on the enviornment and I really don't know which one is better.
#20 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:42 AM EDTThe answer is neighter. You should invest in some reusable cotton bags. you can wash them when they get dirty, they are durable and some stores give you a discount every time you bring your own bag. What more do you want?
It is a common misconception that paperbags biodegrade. It only does so when it is exposed to air. Should it be buried in the landfill, paper does not biodegrade rapidly. If anything, it does so very slowly. That's something else to consider.
Most of the stores where I live don't offer you a choice. In Baltimore,Md. the city tells you "don't put you recycle-ables in plastic bags", however you can buy Plastic recycle bins from the city for recycling, I don't see why one can't use a Blue plastic bag to put plastic RECYCLE-ABLES in BY THE WAY "What ever happened to those blue Recycle bags?"
#21 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:47 AM EDTHello my dear Earthlings!
Oh this is such a silly debate you have with yourselves! Please, please, please refrain from using either one whenever possible, as both paper and plastic are horrible for my complexion and sometimes I don't even want to wake in the morning I feel so ill. The impacts of both are heavy on my immune system, and since we have such wonderful reusable bag options I beg of you to finally make that not so "inconvenient" switch that in your heart you know to be the right decision. I thank you for thinking about me and will continue to nurture you so long as I am able.
Your loving Mother,
Earth
#22 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:58 AM EDTThe store I work at has a sign that says "We bag in Plastic. Paper upon request" Which I think is just fine. I recycle plastic religiously, and I think if everyone else did the same, this issue wouldn't even be in effect. Sure, Plastic uses up the same resource that we get our gasoline from, but paper uses the same resource we get our oxygen from. Which one is more important? Which one really IS better for the environment. You have to look at the bigger picture. Less oil, or less Oxygen. Either way, if we all did our part to recycle both paper AND plastic, the difference we could make in this world would be phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal.
#23 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:59 AM EDTIve been manufacturing canvas bags in the USA for over 15 years and what Ive figured out was that we can make a grocery bag that is made of cotton canvas and which is environmental safe, reusable for a price that would not effect the consumers pocket in the over all picture . The cost can be absorbed either by the store combined with the state and the consumer. IE just like the bottle deposit programs that are in our stores today.
#24 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:18 AM EDTAppalled at how many bags I was collecting (we are family of 3), I went online and found netted reuseable bags that are super strong, hold more than a plastic bag and are very space saving (the stuff sack for all 6 bags fit into one hand). I keep the bags in my truck always available for that impromptu stop at the grocery store. If I only use, say 3 bags, I put the stuff sack with the other bags in with my groceries. When I put the groceries away at home, I gather up all the netted bags, put them in the sack and hang it on the door knob. Next time I leave the house, I grab it. The bags are always together and with me. The number of plastic and paper bags I've reduced is AMAZING and the whole process is actually painless. I've just had to alter my habits (and way of thinking) slightly. Anyone can do this....the cost of the netted bags was $30 which seems a bit high, but they practically indestructible and will last many years I'm sure. Check out the online source I found....I also got a great lead-free lunch box for my 7 year old.
#25 - Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:21 AM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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